User talk:Smokefoot/TalkArch2018

Fluorosulfating reagent:

Smokefoot, I think (I really do!) that the synthetic use of sulfuryl fluoride is far more important than its use as bug spray. This is a very active area of recent publication, and IMO leaving out these new hot recent syntheses makes wiki more Omni - and less Nature. If you get a chance please read those papers; they're really good, novel cutting edge stuff. Even the ones that don't use gaseous SO₂F₂ probably do have it as a transient intermediate. Best regards-- --Tiptopper

@Tiptopper:. Dismaying, but your heart is in the right place.

1) About your comment "synthetic use of sulfuryl fluoride is far more important than its use as bug spray." Maybe you will once discover that banal topics like "bug spray" can be a big deal, possibly more influential than a short note in a specialized journal.

2) This narrowness is the reason that Wikipedia guides editors, unsuccessfully in your case, with WP:SECONDARY, [{WP:NOTNEWS]], WP:NOTJOURNAL, etc. Many thousands of chemistry articles appear every year and Wikipedia does not aspire to record them.

Oh well... sigh. --Smokefoot (talk) 03:38, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Wikipedia is by policy designed not to jump on cutting edge just-published results and trust the original publiations to be dispassionate, but to rather wait for secondary reports (review articles by others, etc) to help us write (and our readers to understand) the context and comparison. DMacks (talk) 20:08, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

Recent reversions

I am at a loss to understand your recent deletions with cis-platin and carboplatin. The deleted references are to up-to-data reviews and are authored, in the case of Lippard, by a world-leading authority. The cis-platin reference is directly on subject as its title includes the words of the article title. Please explain to me the rationale for your action. Petergans (talk) 09:43, 24 February 2018 (UTC)

If the goal is to provide recent reviews on these topics, thank your for good intentions.

Taking as an example, the suggested review that you inserted and I deleted from carboplatin: there are many reviews. According to Chemical Abstracts, 64 reviews on the topic of "carboplatin" have appeared in 2017-2018. But it almost appears that your goal is to enhance the wikipedia article but to cite a particular book series (Metal Ions in Life Sciences), which is somewhat obscure (the series is one that failed to achieve notability sufficient for its own Wikipedia article). I am at a loss to see such a talented and valuable editor as yourself is distracted by citing this series. Finally, the review is not really even on-topic, being entitled "Cisplatin and Oxaliplatin: Our Current Understanding of Their Actions", so carboplatin is not the focus.

I hope that this exchange does not discourage your continued service to Wikipedia. Few or no editors have your level of awareness in solution chemistry.--Smokefoot (talk) 18:28, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

The issue is that this is an up-to-date review by an eminent author. One of the problems with WP is what to do with old citations when they are effectively superseded, as in this case.

The book series is not as obscure as you appear to think. For example, my local university (Leeds) library has a subscription. The chief academic editor of the series (Helmut Sigel) was full professor at the University of Basel (Switzerland). He can be considered to be one of the founders of bio-inorganic chemistry. I have known the Sigels for a long time as we meet at ISMEC conferences most years.

I am not distracted by citing articles from the series. Quite the opposite. An important function of WP is to cite the most recent sources for detailed information on the current state of knowledge and this is what I'm trying to do.

Please undo your reversion. Petergans (talk) 10:27, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

No way: as I explained above, it is a minor book series and the review is not on topic. Maybe we can work together to find a review on carboplatin?--Smokefoot (talk) 22:51, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

This is incomprehensible. The title of the article which I cited (pp 1-42, not the whole book) is ""Cisplatin and Oxaliplatin...". How can this be off topic for the WP article entitled cisplatin? I give up. Petergans (talk) 08:42, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

Aerosol-OTs

Hey, Sorry but there's already a redirect for Aerosol OT. I meant Aerosol-OTs as a pural, there are various grades (Aerosol-OT 75, Aerosol-OT 100 etc) all the same thing [see here].--Project Osprey (talk) 16:12, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

I should have figured out that you were pluralizing. I was just so thrilled that some other editor could contribute to the article. I guess the plural doesn't matter. --Smokefoot (talk) 04:27, 2 March 2018 (UTC)

To be fair tradenames are often an alphabet soup. I keep meaning to tackle out surfactant pages but its a big job and hence I procrastinate. --Project Osprey (talk) 08:56, 2 March 2018 (UTC)

Question about which science websites you recommend for citing

Hello, I would like to know what are the best websites for citing in scientific/chemistry articles. Ericeleven (talk) 18:37, 24 March 2018 (UTC)

@Ericeleven: Most of the editors here are professional scientists with access to on-line books and review journals. So that situation might put you at a disadvantage, but not defeated. Some options:

• check out an advanced chemistry textbook from the library, if possible. Be mindful that a lot of great chemistry is described in other technical books, such as those on cooking, cosmetics, "natural products", polymers, dyes (my personal favorite for factoids).
• if your library is not well-stocked, then find someone who has access to a college library.
• Some review articles are "open-access" which means that the authors paid for the public to read their work. Really great reviews are found in "Chemical Reviews" (US) or "Chemical Society Reviews" (UK).
• Sometimes certain books are available on-line. Some are probably illegal photocopies, in which case you need to use your judgement. The classics are "Chemistry of the Elements". Many organic and biochem texts are probably available. You can glean info from googlebooks.
• http://www.orgsyn.org is free and open-access. Recipes for many organic compounds with additional insights on history and reagents.

My other advice is to not cite websites. Cite books and technical reviews.

Good luck and feel free to ask more questions, --Smokefoot (talk) 18:53, 24 March 2018 (UTC)

I would like to help you with the monofluoro- and difluoro phosphoric acids

I would like to help you with the creation of the monofluoro- and difluoro phosphoric acids articles :D. If you would like me to help you, please give detailed instructions of what I do. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ericeleven (talk • contribs) 21:07, 24 March 2018 (UTC)

Hydrogen bond

Only bad thing with this "advanced" section was that it had bad name. It should be main part of article, which is otherwise terribly outdated and repeats archaic misconceptions. It's the rest of the article which should get additional review. Mithoron (talk) 14:12, 1 April 2018 (UTC)

I encourage you to revise the article according to your understanding of the state of the art, keeping the references general. Major misconceptions should be removed. My focus has been on examples, not theory. --Smokefoot (talk) 14:27, 1 April 2018 (UTC)

Sorry for ranting a bit ;) It was mainly the "high school" definition that was ticking me off. It kinda negated newer discoveries like partial covalent character or C-H...O bonds. Mithoron (talk) 15:38, 1 April 2018 (UTC)

We are all ranters at heart. In any case, I reinstated that part that worried you and separated theory from observation.--Smokefoot (talk) 15:46, 1 April 2018 (UTC)

Please Help

I am officially asking for help from the wikipedia community. An Editor (who has twice flagged my home page as an attack page, so I will not name him here. Seems to be camping my edits (even on TALK PAGES for God's sake!!!) and reverting or criticizing them with very little to go on, other than (apparently) a distate of me garnered from a mistake I made years ago trying to delete a wikipedia category. He also holds cleear and apparently inviolable personal opinions on metallurgy and related matters. For the past year or more I have actually stayed clear of him and his "favorite, personally owned" feifdom pages and subjects. Recently he has decided to just offer snide remarks:

[like this one]

I have attempted to make personal contact through his home page, and he mostly just deletes it. He's even reverted changes I've put in my own home page because he considered them "attacks"! I would like it if someone in authority could please get him to back off. Any help out there?

I am completely willing to plead my case, and I'm open to any arbitration I can get. Let me know what to do - I'll do it!

Riventree (talk) 17:13, 1 April 2018 (UTC)

I looked and didnt see anything seriously problematic. We all can get wound up about things that later seem to be unimportant.... In my case, beer helps. Good luck. --Smokefoot (talk) 00:48, 2 April 2018 (UTC)

Perhaps you're right: Beer may be the answer. Cheers.

Riventree (talk) 11:50, 2 April 2018 (UTC)

Notes to self

phthalocyanine (student work)

We need to remove those projections

Hi, I was wondering do you know of a fast way to delete all those diagrams (polygon model) you mentioned on the chemistry group? The editor has already admitted a COI, the idea isn't accepted and frankly it is but shameless self promotion. EvilxFish (talk) 16:10, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

I can think of a few heuristics to detect them and a few one/two-click or *maybe* scriptable ways to remove at least most of them. I'd like to wait the rest of today to see if anyone supports keeping them just to be sure. DMacks (talk) 20:43, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

I was trigger happy and removed many already. But if the consensus shifts, my work could be undone.--Smokefoot (talk) 20:50, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

I plead guilty to being trigger happy as well and removed a load more. Though I would be surprised if anyone except a sock puppet would add support. EvilxFish (talk) 08:34, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

By the time I got a chance to check, I couldn't find any more to remove. Thanks all! DMacks (talk) 15:44, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

Chelation

Hi Smokefoot, I noticed you deleted the primary citation from Hunter as a COI; thank you for that. The contribution from that paper was the specification of 3,4,3-(LI-1,2-HOPO) as an octadentate ligand used for the bifunctional chelators. If I delete that bit from the sentence you removed, so it looks like this– "These chelate complexes often employ the usage of hexadentate ligands such as desferrioxamine B (DFO), and octadentate ligands such as DTPA.," and cite Caravan et al. for DTPA and PMID 1334954 (Evaluation of desferal as a bifunctional chelating agent for labeling antibodies with Zr-89) for DFO, is it okay to re-add the sentence? Jsa951624 (talk) 23:19, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

Sounds like a plan. You might check desferrioxamine B and DTPA in Scifinder and get a secondary ref on their use. It was the combination of COI and primary that caught my attention. --Smokefoot (talk) 23:25, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

Re: Tetrahedral silicon

Hi Smokefoot, thanks for the tip. I tried to fix that in silicate and/or silicate mineral. But I am still working on those articles....

Good to see that you are still around. Things are fine here. I have neglected Wikipedia for the last 4 years because I have been watching closely the cryptocurrency scene; but it is getting too boring, and I intend to get back to Wikipedia for a while, to "detoxify the mind". All the best, --Jorge Stolfi (talk) 07:09, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

Phosphoric acid: Uses: SAlT (NaA)

Hi, Smokefoot. Line 154 of an edition you saved on 2014-01-01 of "Phosphoric acid" added a table with one entry containing an unclosed parenthesis: "SAlT (NaA". After I closed the parenthesis I searched the internet for some connection between SAlP and NaA but found none. For that reason I'm removing "(NaA)" altogether. If I'm in error, please revert my change and close the parenthesis yourself, perhaps also adding what "NaA" stands for in an editorial remark. Adelphious (talk) 03:25, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

RE: COI

Hi Smokefoot,

I have no problem following Wikipeia regulations, especially now that I've been informed of them. My commitment here was to introduce our research of the past few years into wikipedia. The self-citation rules, however, make it quite challenging to write about your own research on wikipedia at all, which is unfortunate. And admittedly, it simply takes a lot less effort and feels more reliable to cite from own work which I know very well. Feel free to remove whatever you deem unfit for wikipedia, I can only learn from it.

On a side note, comments like the one given below are not necessarily aimed directly to 'enhance wikipedia' either I reckon.

"bursts onto the Wikipedia scene with edits to 4 or so articles. Citing who else? Max Bols papers. His commitment to enhancing Wikipedia or to enhancing Max?"

regards, Max — Preceding unsigned comment added by MaxBols (talk • contribs) 00:07, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

There is some truth in what you are saying. Nonetheless, it is unfortunate that new editors are disinterested in helping the project. The only aspects of the four articles to which you contributed were that they failed to cite your work. And it is amazing how many editors are struggling with your dilemma: If I dont cite me, who else will? I wont try to deal with that question, but the earth will continue to rotate on its axis if we miss a few cutting edge papers.--Smokefoot (talk) 13:21, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

June 2018

Hello, I'm Pivotman319. I noticed that you recently removed content from Hexafluorophosphate without adequately explaining why. In the future, it would be helpful to others if you described your changes to Wikipedia with an accurate edit summary. If this was a mistake, don't worry; the removed content has been restored. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thanks. - pivotman319 (give me a heads up thru user talk.) 13:52, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

Hi Pivotman319. Thanks for the note. I always leave some edit notes, but for large changes, the edit notes are insufficient. I will leave an explanation on the Talk page. --Smokefoot (talk) 13:55, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

Questions regarding Superoxide

Hi, I saw that you made some recent edits at Superoxide and you seem knowledgeable which I am not. I left two questions at Talk:Superoxide regarding points that I find confusing/contradictory in that article. Cheers, AxelBoldt (talk) 08:45, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

Calcium colour

Regarding this: Greenwood and Earnshaw (p. 112, 2nd ed.) write "Be and Mg are silvery white metals whereas Ca, Sr and Ba are pale yellow (as are the divalent rare earth metals Eu and Yb) although the colour is less intense than for Cs (p. 74)". I'm nevertheless not aware of any other source that gives that colour, and certainly the picture looks silvery (and not pale yellow). Strontium does seem to look more yellow in this picture. These are all reactive metals and it may be that the observed colour depends strongly on the degree of corrosion. I think your change was good, keeping colour out of the lede; later in the article I've changed it to "Calcium is a very ductile silvery metal (sometimes described as pale yellow)". It would be great to have more sources on this as we do for the colour of Cs, though. Double sharp (talk) 14:20, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

Oh, maybe I blew it. I consulted the image in the chembox, which appears silvery and not yellow. I will revert my edit until we achieve some consensus. Thanks for the note.--Smokefoot (talk) 15:37, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

Molybdenum

Thanks for your work on that article! I might try joining in if I get the time. You've certainly reminded me that many of the old element GAs in the d-block need a good rewrite to strengthen their coverage of chemistry (I just checked the first one and was greeted with stubs instead of subsections). I could start trying to pull the green pluses off them, but I think it'll be more fun and rewarding to actually fix them instead. ^_^ Double sharp (talk) 16:14, 7 July 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the encouragement. I plan to leave a note on the elements project page. You are always welcome to help out. BTW, I need to get back to you on the color of Ca. --Smokefoot (talk) 16:16, 7 July 2018 (UTC)

Tungsten

It is nice to see the Tungsten article expanded. You left out a couple of the full references, so the reference list is getting red error messages like "The named reference Holl was invoked but never defined". Thanks for looking into this. StarryGrandma (talk) 20:07, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

Specialized Methods on TiO2 production

I was wondering if you have a source or article about the reaction you described here. I am thinking about using this reaction but would like to know the synthesis parameters.

Ti(OEt)₄ → TiO₂ + 2 Et2O

The method should be cited. Probably Ullmann's encyclopedia has it. My guess is that the method is CVD, i.e. contacting the vapor with a hot surface. Might be easier with titanium isopropoxide.--Smokefoot (talk) 18:48, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

For deletion?

Please look at silicic acid. All your good work has been undone by user:Jorge Stolfi. There is no experimental evidence that I can find for the existence of any silicic acid. Petergans (talk) 19:06, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

I dont understand his obsession with these and related compounds. And his obsession risks distortion, such that nearly fictional aspects are amplified, see WP:UNDUE. --Smokefoot (talk) 17:17, 20 July 2018 (UTC)

conflict

Greetings Smokefoot,

How are you? I noticed hours ago that User:Riventree helped out adding a source for his past edit; my second request was denied. As that user comment on you on hir user page, I come you ask for an idea. Was he or she irritated in reacting removing my post? -- Mountainninja (talk) 03:59, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the note. Some things just get on his nerves for reasons that I don't understand. Riventree is a versatile editor who knows a lot and cares a lot. --Smokefoot (talk) 13:23, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

Hello Mountainninja! I was not irked. Smokefoot is correct: I am personally a bit prone to fly off the handle, so you were NOT wholly without reason to think I'd gotten upset, but this is truly not the case. I encourage you to just cut-and-paste my reference onto the page you wish to annotate. In truth I was recently threatened with a Wikipedia censure by another editor who is vastly senior to me and more prolific than I am. I'm taking his threat seriously and have been trying to "stay within my own borders of expertise". I am worried he might bait me with a sock-puppet into doing something that would strengthen his case, and that is the only reason I balked at editing the page you asked me to edit. I was worried that a person with Ninja in their name was asking me to edit "distant" pages dealing with a very dangerous substance, and was being overly cautious. No hard feelings, no worries. I love your work on chemistry pages. Keep up the good work!

Cheers!

Riventree (talk) 03:37, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

Gratitude for Bis-oxadiazole

I noticed your edits on the page and I appreciate the changes. It's a much cleaner read now, so thanks for your work.

Epark251 (talk) 07:27, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

@Epark251: Thank you for the note. It is a really nifty subject that you brought to Wikipedia. --Smokefoot (talk) 14:10, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

Organic fert / biosolids

Hello Smokefoot - We've both been updating parts of the Organic fertilizer article. Fraid I upended some of your work regarding biosolids. I need another day or two to add a couple of references. Let me know if you have significant concerns.

Thanks, GeeBee60 (talk) 02:34, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

Ullmann's entry for thorium dioxide

Hi Smokefoot,

I started a thorium monoxide article, and I see that you added a note to the thorium dioxide article that pyrolysis of the dioxide gives the monoxide, cited to:

• Wolfgang Stoll "Thorium and Thorium Compounds" Ullmann's Encyclopedia of Industrial Chemistry 2012 Wiley-VCH, Weinheim. doi:10.1002/14356007.a27_001

Someone asked for clarification of the "extremely high temperatures" involved. Long ago someone wandered off with my copy of Ullmann:( Could you check the actual reaction conditions, or see if there is a journal cite that I could track down? DMacks (talk) 17:39, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

Well re-reading that section makes me regret that I implied that ThO is well characterized in bulk. This is what Ullmann's says "Two compounds, ThO and ThO2, exist in the oxygen – thorium system. The black compound ThO, which crystallizes with the sodium chloride lattice, is known only from coatings on the metal. It is probably an interstitial compound ..."

• I searched thorium monoxide in SciFinder. Of the 77 hits, the top one is this:Order of Magnitude Smaller Limit on the Electric Dipole Moment of the Electron By Baron, J.; Campbell, W. C.; DeMille, D.; Doyle, J. M.; Gabrielse, G.; Gurevich, Y. V.; Hess, P. W.; Hutzler, N. R.; Kirilov, E.; Kozyryev, I.; et al Science (2014), 343(6168), 269-272. The Std. Model of particle physics is known to be incomplete.  Extensions to the Std. Model, such as weak-scale supersymmetry, posit the existence of new particles and interactions that are asym. under time reversal (T) and nearly always predict a small yet potentially measurable electron elec. dipole moment (EDM), de, in the range of 10-27 to 10-30e·cm.  ..."
• Several other papers are focused on the dipole moment of gaseous ThO, which is relevant to physics that I do not understand.
• Within the 77 SciFinder hits, I sub-searched for 'crystal structure' and got this hit, which is probably the basis for the Ullmanns info and also seems to be consistent with the remark on the extraordinary temps involved: "The reaction occurring on thoriated cathodesBy Hoch, Michael; Johnston, Herrick L. From Journal of the American Chemical Society (1954), 76, 4833-5.The vapor pressure of ThO2 was detd. by the method of Knudsen, between 2398 and 2677°K.  ThO2 vaporizes mostly undissocd., the heat of vaporization being ΔH°298 = 170 ± 1 kcal./mole.  Of the material, 2-10% vaporizes as ThO.  No reaction occurs between ThO2 and W.  The study of the reaction Th(l) + ThO2(s) ↹ 2ThO(s) by a high-temp. x-ray diffraction technique showed the formation at 2150°K. of solid ThO.  ThO has a cubic, face-centered lattice, with a = 4.31 A.  The formation of thorium on the thoriated cathodes is thus due to the decompn. of the ThO2 to ThO at 2500°K. and above; the ThO disproportionates to Th and ThO2 on cooling to 2000°K."
• So ThO is real, but barely so. --Smokefoot (talk) 18:07, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

Thanks! I'd also only found it in other experiments, also of the matrix/gas-jet/mass-spectrometer types of conditions typical for esoteric compounds. Though they agree with the fcc lattice and that ThO is formable but ThO2 is more stable, which is nice consistency. I updated the dioxide article. My original interest was probably based on the physics aspect, which is also not my area...just a comment in another article about the unusually high electric field strength in the Th–O bond. DMacks (talk) 09:05, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

Perplexed what to do with CORM article

I ended up at the article because the editor who has been adding so much also added a carbon monoxide statement (unreferenced) to the Vitamin C article, which I had raised to GA. I believe Ketoacids is editing in good faith, but has no idea whatsoever for what qualifies as appropriate references. I left Talk comments at the CORM article and K's Talk, but I really do not want to get involved with a topic I know nothing about. David notMD (talk) 01:17, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

The editor is a researcher who is promoting his/her area of scholarship. The topic aspires to be of clinical significance, but is not close. Lots of primary references, often to narrow journals and no user page are indicators of a COI editor. Unfortunate case, but not worth losing sleep over unless the editor tries to link the article too aggressively. --Smokefoot (talk) 01:46, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

I did deletions according to my understanding of Wikipedia standards. Ketoacids quickly reverted. I left a comment in talk. I do not intend to do any more editing of this article. I will watch the nutrient articles Vitamin C, Vitamin C megadosage, etc., to deter links to those. David notMD (talk) 10:29, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

Carborane

Please have a look at carborane. I have done a major expansion, but reference 6 (from the old text) is clearly not right for WP and I don't know what to do about it. Petergans (talk) 14:43, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

I will turn my attention to these needful articles. The community must be grateful for your removing so much dubious material, (amphoteric behavior of BH3 for example). --Smokefoot (talk) 17:18, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

2,3-Dihydrothiophene

Hi, some time ago you wrote in 2,3-Dihydrothiophene that it has "characteristic fragrance of thioethers". I am not a native speaker of English, but dictionaries suggest this means something like a sweet/pleasant odour. I would not expect such compounds to have a pleasant smell, and the thioether article mentions that they "have foul odors", which in my understanding means an unpleasant smell. Could you please clarify/correct this contradiction? Thanks, Szaszicska (talk) 18:36, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

 Done I wish that my understanding of other languages was as sharp as yours. --Smokefoot (talk) 20:07, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

On "textbook compounds" and "bigfoot compounds"

Hi Smokefoot, you wrote in a talk page that you believe Wikipedia should only "record settled knowledge". Well, my view is somewhat broader: I would say that it should "make accessible information that is reliable, timeless, and useful to enough readers". Where "enough" can be quite a low number, even a few thousand all over the world and over decades. That seems to be the standard for articles in other areas.
Like every other Wikipedia editor, I contribute as a hobby -- when I can, because I like doing it. Needless to say, part of the pleasure is knowing that my articles are useful to the readers.
However, for that reason, Wikipedia should not set among its goals complateness and uniformity -- whether of coverage, of depth, or of style. In those aspects, it cannot compete with commercial encyclopedias and handbooks. For the latter, those goals are both achievable and desirable, including for marketing purposes. Wikipedia, on the other hand, will always be uneven and incomplete. Thus, any article that is good and useful will add to its value -- even if its topic is much less important than that of many other missing articles.
Thus, like most other editors, I don't feel I have much obligation to prioritize "important" topics over less important ones; in particular, about "textbook compounds" like sodium hydroxide over "bigfoot compounds" like mercurous sulfide and cobalt trichloride. I have written and edited articles on both types of compounds; I chose them for random reasons, like when I stumble on an article that obviously needs work, or when I look up a compound but Wikipedia has nothing about it.
That was in fact the case for cobalt trichloride and mercurous sulfide. I don't remember where or why I ran into them; perhaps they were mentioned in science forums as "disputed". But I was rather disappointed when Wikipedia did not even say that -- it just said "no such article". I went looking for papers, and once I found some, It would be a waste not to write the articles.
Speaking of textbooks, I have Greenwood & Earnshaw and still like to browse it sometimes. From it and all other common sources, I knew that there were only three oxides of carbon: CO, CO2, and C3O2. I was quite surprised when I stumbled on mellitic anhydride in Wikipedia. That motivated me to find out how many oxocarbons there were really. The answer was "lots", including many stable and partly stable ones. In fact, because of polymeric C3O2, there is an infinte number of them. Surely there may be many more. (I bet that there is an oxygen analog of sulflower, for example; but apparently no one has thought of trying to synthesize it yet.) That is just one example where I think that Wikipedia is better than textbooks at their own business.
Anyway, congratulations for your contributions to Wikipedia, and thanks for your criticisms.
All the best, --Jorge Stolfi (talk) 21:37, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

Well we are all free to contribute in our own way. I seem to have taken the opposite approach to you. I try to provide a modicum of information on common compounds and commercial formulations that are too boring to attract scholars who specialized in hot topics. My goal is identify common materials that are missing and then write something informative. I want normal people to see how pervasive and integral chemistry is in their lives. The problem with focusing on "bigfoot" compounds is that one is often forced to rely on weak or obsolete literature and to make judgements about technical themes that are difficult to evaluate. One is forced to play god, admittedly over a small world, although the consequences are not great. Good luck and best wishes, --Smokefoot (talk) 13:26, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

Phosphoramidate/Phosphoramides

Hey, there now seems to be an overlap between Phosphoramides and Phosphoramidate, both seem to refer to (HO)₂P(=O)NH₂. The former page, which you've been editing, does have the Goldbook backing it, however Google scholar gives a similar number of results for either name. We might also have to change Template:Organophosphorus. --Project Osprey (talk) 15:10, 13 September 2018 (UTC)

{ping|Project Osprey}} I was trying to create something from nothing with Phosphoramides, not realizing that we have Phosphoramidate. This is an area where you are probably more expert than I am, so you can merge in the direction you think is best. I dont think that we need to poll editors because obviously this type of compounds is a neglected area. --Smokefoot (talk) 03:02, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

I certainly don't feel like an expert in these matters but I'll do what I can. --Project Osprey (talk) 11:48, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

I've straightened it out as best I can. The IUPAC definition was key, as it differentiates between the two. --Project Osprey (talk) 09:47, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

Folate

As you have done significant editing to the Folate article, just wanted to bring to your attention that I have started a serious overhaul in attempt to get it closer to being ready for a Good Article Nomination. You are welcome to get involved. David notMD (talk) 14:02, 27 September 2018 (UTC)

Vitamin E

Compared to other vitamins, the Vitamin E info box is sadly short. Would you consider improving on that, or else recommending other editors with the appropriate expertise. Because it ain't going to be me.

P.S. In looking at your Contents list, some of the entries were appearing as subsets of others because section headers were bracketed by only single "=". I changed all to double "==". If the singles were intended, I apologize profusely. David notMD (talk) 14:09, 27 September 2018 (UTC)

Tellurophene

I'm currently in the process of editing the article on tellurophenes. It is by no means finished, and I'm continuing to add text and more (and better) references. I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't make such drastic changes while I'm still working on it. Thanks. Also, I only uploaded those HOMO/LUMO diagrams that I calculated using GAMESS because it agreed with the orbital calculations from the peer-reviewed journals I cited, and I said they agreed in the article. All it takes is 5 minutes to look up the articles I cite and compare the diagrams from those papers and those that I calculated using the same basis sets the authors used (albeit with a different computational program). Articles from last year's class also uploaded students' own calculated orbital diagrams (e.g. Decamethylsilicocene, Iminoborane) which aren't from peer-reviewed journals and yet you haven't deleted any of their work even though it's a finished article? Hyehwang Kim (talk) 15:04, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

@Hyehwang Kim: @Beetstra: Hyehwang: All unpublished work will be removed from the previous articles to the extent that the figures are not reproductions with copyright release. If you want to show figures of published research, then you are can request permissions from the journals to reproduce their figures, but I would be surprised if the journals cooperated. Bottom line: Wikipedia simply does not report unpublished results, theoretical or experimental. Wikipedia, unfortunately or fortunately depending on ones perspective, does not exist as a homework site. --Smokefoot (talk) 15:07, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

@Smokefoot: So I'm confused. The orbital diagrams from those two articles from last year are fine and mine aren't? What is the distinguishing factor here? Thanks.Hyehwang Kim (talk) 15:25, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

@Hyehwang Kim: My guess is that all previously posted OR figures (last year's too) will be removed. Beetstra started with you since so that your fellow students do not waste time putting such figures into Wikipedia. We just do not publish new stuff. Thanks, --Smokefoot (talk) 15:29, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

@Smokefoot: I see, this makes a lot more sense. Thanks.Hyehwang Kim (talk) 15:31, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

October 2018

Hello, I'm Zackmann08. Thank you for your recent contributions to Disperse Orange 1. When you were adding content to the page, you added duplicate arguments to a template which can cause issues with how the template is rendered. In the future, please use the preview button before you save your edit; this helps you find these errors as they will display in red at the top of the page. Thanks! Zackmann (^{Talk to me}/_{What I been doing}) 21:07, 17 October 2018 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Special Barnstar
	Thank you for contributions on chemistry related articles, specially to nitric oxide ones. It was helpful. Rafael Kenneth (talk) 02:46, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

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Chembox assistance

Howdy! Robert McClenon suggested that I reach out to you. I'm working on building a {{Infobox}} based replacement for {{Chembox}}. I have a working proof of concept at {{Infobox chemical}} but am looking for some expert feedback. For example, some of the labels are a bit long and verbose so I'd like to try to condense them. I'm no good with chemistry so I want to make sure I keep the important things. Anyway, if you are willing to work with me, I'd sure love the assistance! Thanks!!! (P.S. Happy thanksgiving if you are in the USA!) --Zackmann (^{Talk to me}/_{What I been doing}) 00:52, 23 November 2018 (UTC)

Reply to Links in chem equation

I might be incorrect, but somewhere there is or was a rule/guidline (or I am "losing it") that discourages links within chem equations (as well as headers). Hence my messing with your edit on neohexene. Cheers, --Smokefoot (talk) 21:10, 18 October 2018 (UTC)

Would you mind indicate to me that the rule or guideline? -- Ktsquare (talk) 23:15, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

@Ktsquare: Sorry for the delay: In Wiki-Chemistry articles, "Compounds and atoms in reactions should not be wikilinked. These links should be in the surrounding text.". See Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Chemistry. I think that relates to your question--Smokefoot (talk) 16:50, 29 December 2018 (UTC)

Sulfur vulcanization

Regarding your edit to sulfur vulcanization, do you have any references stating that S₈ is rarely used? My access to the literature is imperfect, but several sources I do have access to talk about vulcanisation using S₈ and accelerators.--Project Osprey (talk) 10:24, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

@Project Osprey: I hope to get some refs, but readers can now see why blooming is an issue with the wrong kind of sulfur. Give me a couple of days. A quick search of insoluble sulfur gives preliminary hits. e.g. http://uotechnology.edu.iq/dep-materials/lecture/thirdclass/Rubber%20Lecture%20by%20Dr.%20Qahtan%2013.pdf Similar sources and presentations can be found from Japanese, PRC, US, and Polish companies. In general the vulcanization area is difficult to learn about because either the formulaters are secretive or don't really understand organoS chemistry very well. And they publish in obscure places, so I am unsure if I can find a good review on the non-use of S8. --Smokefoot (talk) 12:34, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

Indeed. It was a tricky page to rewrite, the topic has its own private language and doesn't seem to have undergone any major changes in decades, which makes modern reviews harder to find. --Project Osprey (talk) 12:57, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

@Project Osprey: Still no luck with a great ref but if you Google "Crystex" ("Crystex™ HD OT 20 is a non-blooming vulcanizing agent for unsaturated elastomers...."). --Smokefoot (talk) 16:52, 29 December 2018 (UTC)

Looks to be amorphous sulfur, formed by rapidly cooling molten sulfur so it doesn't have time to form S₈ rings. Allotropes of sulfur would imply that the structure is a chain of sulfur atoms arraigned in a helix. Eastman notes that "Crystex HD OT 20 is a metastable product which can revert to soluble sulfur if not stored under proper conditions". The key seems to be that its insoluble and thus cannot bloom, they use high shear-mixing to disperse it in, essentially forming a colloid I guess.--Project Osprey (talk) 11:15, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

Btw. Happy New Year :) --Project Osprey (talk) 13:23, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

Same to you across the pond. Our conversations have been fun.--Smokefoot (talk) 13:27, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

Polymorph titanium

Polymorphism can be found in TiO2, there are three crystal structures: anatase, rutile, brookite. http://ruby.colorado.edu/~smyth/min/tio2.html TiO2 is an inorganic substance and polymorphism is true, but the main issue is the crystal structure. --Sailamarja (talk) 15:33, 29 December 2018 (UTC)

I think that polymorphism is the more precise term. TiO2 exists as three polymorphs. Although many people, students especially, use the term "crystal structure", is it defined? That is what I am thinking. Your thoughts? --Smokefoot (talk) 16:40, 29 December 2018 (UTC)

My background includes crystallography (single-crystal X-ray diffraction) and theoretical chemistry. I think it is good to mention also the crustal structure. The crystal structure is important, because it explains the other properties. Rutile is more thermodynamically stable in structure than is anatase.Sailamarja (talk) 12:41, 30 December 2018 (UTC)

Fe(II)sulfate

Why Fe(II)sulfate instead of Fe(II)sulfate penta hydrate? The solution is cooled and iron crystallizes and it is spinned out of the solution as iron(II)sulphate penta hydrate. Sailamarja (talk) 17:42, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

@Sailamarja: You're right. I thought you were referring to the solution phase, where the pentahydrate is questionable. But if the material is being crystallized ... --Smokefoot (talk) 21:17, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

Ok, thanks. I understand now and agree with you. In solution surely Iron(II)sulfate and there are in the solution plenty of other metalsulfates also, but not so much than iron. Only ironsulfate crystallizes, when cooling.

Happy new year! Sailamarja (talk) 22:36, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

Methanedithiol

Happy New Year Smokefoot!

Thank you for creating many new chemical pages.

I have noticed that in your new chemical pages there is often a "| CASNo_notes = hydrate" line. For Methanedithiol is that really a hydrate? None of the sources I can find mention a hydrate. Secondly "CASNo_notes" is not a valid parameter, and perhaps you should be using CASNo_Comment, with an update to whatever template you are using to start off the chembox. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 21:34, 31 December 2018 (UTC)